From nomic02@wurb.com Sat Feb 1 00:39:07 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 19:39:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [T] Jota's Turn (Phase Five) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I move myself and Grunk from the Attic to Saturn. The I move the monkey to Washington, DC and make him steal the Scarlet Emerald from Banford. Then I end my turn; it is now baf's turn. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Sat Feb 1 01:32:32 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 20:32:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Upstairs, Schmupstairs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The following has received explicit Aye votes from pamith, jwalrus, and jota. I proposed it, and RC gave approval by being on the Passive Voters List. It goes into effect one hour from now, at 9:35 PM EST. > Upstairs, Schmupstairs [baf] > Remove Rule 60. > Add two rules: > 1. No servant may be moved to a room that is the location of a player > other than the player with which that servant is associated. > 2. If a player's turn ends with his or her servant in the same location as > another player, the servant's location will be immediately chagned to > the Servants' Quarters. From nomic02@wurb.com Sat Feb 1 02:15:27 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 21:15:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [T] Jota's Turn (Phase Five) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Admiral Jota wrote: > I move myself and Grunk from the Attic to Saturn. The I move the monkey to > Washington, DC and make him steal the Scarlet Emerald from Banford. Then I > end my turn; it is now baf's turn. Oh bah. I was thinking he was safe there because it was a high-security area, but Rule 74 only prohibits theft in such areas by players, not monkeys. I'm going to cut my losses by moving Banford to West of Nowhere, where he will drop the Royal Honey for five lousy brownie points. Just to be a spoilsport, its new location will be The. (You can still make a profit by delivering it there via Omnibus and xyzzying home, but this will result in stranding the omnibus.) I will also move myself to The House of Commons. My turn endeth. It is now jw's turn. From nomic02@wurb.com Sat Feb 1 02:24:28 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 21:24:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [T] Jota's Turn (Phase Five) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Carl Muckenhoupt wrote: > its new location will be The. I assume you mean its destination? -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Sat Feb 1 02:21:16 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 21:21:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [T] Jota's Turn (Phase Five) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Admiral Jota wrote: > On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Carl Muckenhoupt wrote: > > > its new location will be The. > > I assume you mean its destination? Yes. From nomic02@wurb.com Sat Feb 1 02:27:58 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 21:27:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Omnibus Tune-Up In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The following has received explicit Aye votes from jwalrus, psmith, and even jota, who voted nay at first but then changed his mind. I proposed it, and RC is on the passive voters list. It goes into effect one hour from now, at 10:30 PM EST. > Move Means Move [baf] > An entity whose location has changed will only be considered to "move" if > a rule permitting the change of location uses the word "move" in reference > to this change. From nomic02@wurb.com Sat Feb 1 02:30:31 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 21:30:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Listy Definitions [Jota] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Admiral Jota wrote: > Two rules: > > Listy Definitions [Jota] Aye. From nomic02@wurb.com Sat Feb 1 02:41:51 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 21:41:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] Another Prize Proposal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Carbol, Roger wrote: > Name: The Bus Driver's Lunchbox Hm. This is a prize token whose destination does not change when redeemed for brownie points. I don't think I like this. Nay. From nomic02@wurb.com Sat Feb 1 02:45:52 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 21:45:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Were you waiting for *me*? [Jota] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Admiral Jota wrote: > A proposal for three rules: > > Were you waiting for *me*? [Jota] I take it that, being right after RC, you're tired of waiting for his turn to time out every time? I'll give an aye to this if you really want it, but to me, 24 hours of inactivity every once in a while doesn't seem like a bad thing. From nomic02@wurb.com Sat Feb 1 03:04:52 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 22:04:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] Another Prize Proposal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Carl Muckenhoupt wrote: > On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Carbol, Roger wrote: > > Name: The Bus Driver's Lunchbox > > Hm. This is a prize token whose destination does not change when > redeemed for brownie points. I don't think I like this. Nay. There was some discussion on this on the MUD -- technically, it's not actually a proposal, since it doesn't have a properly formed proposal name. I think that Psmith might be intending to repropose it with some extra rules to make its location change randomly when it's redeemed. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Sat Feb 1 03:00:26 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 22:00:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Exploration bonus Message-ID: Proposal for three new rules, resulting in a new way to earn brownie points: Exploration bonus [baf] 1. Every room on the map will have a tally associated with it, called "visits". This tally will initially be 0 for every room, and is considered part of the state of the game. 2. Whenever a player's location changes, the visits tally of the new location will be incremented by 1. 3. Whenever a player's location changes, that player will receive a number of brownie points equal to the new location's visits subtracted from the largest visits tally of any room on the map. From nomic02@wurb.com Sat Feb 1 03:08:45 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 22:08:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Exploration bonus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Carl Muckenhoupt wrote: > Proposal for three new rules, resulting in a new way to earn > brownie points: > Exploration bonus [baf] Aye. I like that idea. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Sat Feb 1 03:22:48 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 22:22:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Exploration bonus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK, there's a pretty big flaw with this as given: the ordering is unclear. The points awarded will be different depending on whether the tally is incremented before or after they're awarded. I'm voting nay on it and proposing the following replacement: Exploration bonus II [baf] 1. Every room on the map will have a tally associated with it, called "visits". This tally will initially be 0 for every room, and is considered part of the state of the game. 2. At the end of every turn, each room's visits tally will be incremented by 1 for every player whose location was changed to that room during that turn. 3. Whenever a player's location changes, that player will receive a number of brownie points equal to the new location's visits subtracted from the largest visits tally of any room on the map. From nomic02@wurb.com Sat Feb 1 03:33:16 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 22:33:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Exploration bonus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Carl Muckenhoupt wrote: > OK, there's a pretty big flaw with this as given: the ordering is > unclear. The points awarded will be different depending on whether the > tally is incremented before or after they're awarded. I'm voting nay on > it I'll mark it dead, then. > and proposing the following replacement: > > Exploration bonus II [baf] Even better -- I'd been assumeing they'd take effect in rule order, which wuld have been the other way around, but this version has even more points being flung about willy-nilly. Aye. Oh, and I assume that the tallies are zero at the time this goes into effect, and retroactive arrivals are irrelevant here, right? -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Sat Feb 1 03:39:00 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 22:39:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] Minor Map Nit-Pick Message-ID: At the moment, the map shows me and Grunk in the Attic; I just moved myself and Grunk to Saturn. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Sat Feb 1 03:54:35 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 22:54:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Exploration bonus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Admiral Jota wrote: > Oh, and I assume that the tallies are zero at the time this goes into > effect, and retroactive arrivals are irrelevant here, right? Right. The initial value of the visits tally is stated to be 0, and so that's what it will be until something happens to change it. The proposal includes a way for the tally to change, but like all rules, it only goes into effect after its ratification has been announced. From nomic02@wurb.com Sat Feb 1 22:37:18 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (A.M.G. Biltcliffe) Date: 01 Feb 2003 22:37:18 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [T] Jota's Turn (Phase Five) Message-ID: On Feb 1 2003, Carl Muckenhoupt wrote: > My turn endeth. It is now jw's turn. It is? Do I have my alphabet wrong again? From nomic02@wurb.com Sat Feb 1 23:24:11 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 18:24:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [T] Jota's Turn (Phase Five) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 1 Feb 2003, A.M.G. Biltcliffe wrote: > On Feb 1 2003, Carl Muckenhoupt wrote: > > > My turn endeth. It is now jw's turn. > > It is? Do I have my alphabet wrong again? I think it is Ps', for the next few hours at least. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 11:07:58 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:07:58 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [T] Jota's Turn (Phase Five) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030203110758.GA7285@spod-central.org> Admiral Jota wrote: > On 1 Feb 2003, A.M.G. Biltcliffe wrote: > > > On Feb 1 2003, Carl Muckenhoupt wrote: > > > > > My turn endeth. It is now jw's turn. > > > > It is? Do I have my alphabet wrong again? > > I think it is Ps', for the next few hours at least. Except that I didn't get to log in over the weekend. Bleah. For the avoidance of doubt: It is now Roger Carbol's turn, and has been since 2002-02-03 02:15 GMT. Jota's turn will start at 2002-02-04 02:15 GMT, unless Roger declares his turn completed earlier. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with : : locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / : : To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] : From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 11:11:34 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:11:34 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] Proposal: Tiny Paws Message-ID: <20030203111133.GB7285@spod-central.org> A proposal for a new rule. Tiny Paws [Psmith] The monkey may carry a maximum of one token at any one time. If the monkey is already carrying a token, it may not acquire another (by picking up, stealing, or any other means) until it has ceased to carry that token. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with : : locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / : : To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] : From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 11:13:03 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:13:03 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Exploration bonus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030203111303.GC7285@spod-central.org> Carl Muckenhoupt wrote: > Exploration bonus II [baf] Aye. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with : : locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / : : To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] : From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 11:23:42 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:23:42 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] Proposal: Batteries Not Included Message-ID: <20030203112342.GD7285@spod-central.org> A proposal for a new rule. Batteries Not Included [Psmith] The mind-control satellite uplink shall have a tally associated with it known as its "power supply charge level", with an initial value of 10. Each time another game entity is caused to do something by virtue of the active player holding this token, the tally shall be decremented by one; no such action may be taken if the tally is zero. If the location of the mind-control satellite uplink is Embedded CPU, and has been continuously for 48 hours, its power supply charge level will be reset to 10. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with : : locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / : : To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] : From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 12:34:58 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Adam Biltcliffe) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 12:34:58 -0000 Subject: [Nomic02] after careful consideration ... Message-ID: <3006042.1044275698@cornelius> Having not checked my email for a couple of days I now have a large number of proposals waiting for my attention. Having carefully inspected all of them there do not appear to be any with which I disagree, so I hereby vote "aye" on all outstanding proposals to which no-one has already voted "nay" (in case any are vetoed but not yet dead). jw From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 12:36:36 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Adam Biltcliffe) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 12:36:36 -0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [R] Cruelty to Animals Message-ID: <3103953.1044275796@cornelius> The following proposal has been approved by all players and so will go into effect one hour from now. The only change resulting from the enactment of this proposal is the addition of one new rule: Cruelty to Animals [jwalrus]: "If a time bomb esplodes in the location currently occupied by the monkey, the player who last caused the location of the time bomb or monkey, whichever was more recent, to be changed, shall lose 40 brownie points or all their brownie points, whichever is less." jw From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 18:34:28 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:34:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Were you waiting for *me*? [Jota] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This proposal has now been supported explicitly by Ps and baf, by jwal via omnibus, and implicitly by Roger and myself. It becomes Rules 90-92 one hour from now. > Were you waiting for *me*? [Jota] > > I. As a part of the state of the game there will exist a list of players, > initially empty, called the "Passive Turn-Takers". Any player may cause > themselves to be added to or removed from the Passive Turn-Takers list > by posting clear intent to do so. > > II. If a player on the Passive Turn-Takers list ends their turn by > time-out without having taken any voluntary action on that turn, that > player will be said to be "asleep at the switch". The turns of any > player who is asleep at the switch will time out after six hours > instead of twenty-four. > > III. If a player who is asleep at the switch either takes a voluntary > action on their turn or expresses to the list that they do not intend > to be asleep at the switch at that time, they will no longer be > considered so at that point, and may not be considered to be so again > until the end of their following turn. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 18:36:39 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:36:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [R] Listy Definitions [Jota] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The following proposal has been supported by Ps and baf explicitly, jwal by omnibus, and Roger and myself implicitly. It goes into effect as Rules 93 and 94 in one hour. > Listy Definitions [Jota] > > I. If any list of things is said to be in "Standard Order", that will mean > they are ordered according to case-insensitive alphabetical order, > ignoring articles (the words "a", "an", "the") and non-alphabetic > characters. Any items remaining will be at the end of that list, > ordered alphabetically with articles included but non-alphabetic > ignored. Any items still remaining will follow in numerical order if > numerical, and at the very end of the list if not. > > II. If one item from a set is to be chosen by "Random Selection", the > items (or names of the items, as appropriate) will be considered in > Standard Order. A die will be rolled whose number of sides is the same > as the number of items in the list; if no appropriate die is > available, the next largest die will be used instead. The number > rolled will be used as an index (where "1" indicates the first item in > Standard Order) to select the item; if the value exceeds the number of > items on the list, it will be rerolled. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 18:38:20 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:38:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Were you waiting for *me*? [Jota] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Carl Muckenhoupt wrote: > I take it that, being right after RC, you're tired of waiting for his turn > to time out every time? I'll give an aye to this if you really want it, > but to me, 24 hours of inactivity every once in a while doesn't seem like > a bad thing. I'm mainly interested in taking care of the case where one player expects to not really be taking part in the game for a little while -- I certainly wouldn't be bothered if no one joined the PTT list, though. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 18:42:23 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:42:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] Proposal: Tiny Paws In-Reply-To: <20030203111133.GB7285@spod-central.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > Tiny Paws [Psmith] > > The monkey may carry a maximum of one token at any one time. If the > monkey is already carrying a token, it may not acquire another (by > picking up, stealing, or any other means) until it has ceased to > carry that token. I like this in principle, but perhaps it should only prohibit the monkey acquiring items by actions taken by the uplink-holder? Or, even more explicitly, to prevent any actions to be taken by the uplink-holder that would result in the monkey carrying multiple objects? So that we don't risk contradictions with any other rules that introduce objects to inventory by other means... -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 18:43:00 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:43:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] Proposal: Batteries Not Included In-Reply-To: <20030203112342.GD7285@spod-central.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > Batteries Not Included [Psmith] Aye. I've definitely been feeling that the monkey was too powerful as he stood. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 19:49:28 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Adam Biltcliffe) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 19:49:28 -0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [P] pie fighters Message-ID: <29076099.1044301768@cornelius> A set of related proposals for adding further silliness to the game, but in a hopefully at least somewhat useful way (and maybe creating an incentive for not sticking in the same room as your servant quite all the time): Simple Simon Met A Pieman [jwalrus] The game shall contain a pieman who has a location on the map. The initial location of the pieman shall be Central Park. Pieman, May I Taste Your Wares? [jwalrus] If the active player's servant's location is the same as the location of the pieman, the player may, as an action, elect to have his servant 'buy a pie'. When this occurs, the player's brownie points tally shall decrease by twenty points and a new token shall be created with the name "a pie" and location equal to the active player's servant. The pieman's location shall then change to a room chosen by random selection from the set of rooms which are connected to the pieman's current location but not equal to it. Pie In The Face As an action, the active player may have their servant throw a pie at any player, servant or the monkey. The servant may only throw a pie if their location has not been voluntarily changed this turn and their location may not be voluntarily changed after throwing a pie. The servant must be carrying at least one pie in order to throw it, and the pie may only be thrown at a target whose location is connected to but not equal to the throwing servant's location. To throw the pie, the active player shall roll one die; if the result is an even number the pie is deemed to have hit. Should the pie hit, the pie is removed from the game and the target of the pie-throw shall immediately drop all tokens they are carrying. If the pie does not hit, the pie's new location becomes equal to the location of the target. jw From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 19:54:56 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:54:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Rock and Roll [Jota] Message-ID: A rule proposal: Rock and Roll [Jota] If a die needs to be rolled to determine something, and it's not specified who must roll that die, then any player may do so. If multiple dice are rolled, the first valid roll posted to the list (and clearly marked what it's for) will take precedence. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 20:03:00 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:03:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] pie fighters In-Reply-To: <29076099.1044301768@cornelius> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > Simple Simon Met A Pieman [jwalrus] > The game shall contain a pieman who has a location on the map. The initial > location of the pieman shall be Central Park. Aye. > Pieman, May I Taste Your Wares? [jwalrus] > If the active player's servant's location is the same as the location of > the pieman, the player may, as an action, elect to have his servant 'buy a > pie'. When this occurs, the player's brownie points tally shall decrease by > twenty points and a new token shall be created with the name "a pie" and > location equal to the active player's servant. The pieman's location shall > then change to a room chosen by random selection from the set of rooms > which are connected to the pieman's current location but not equal to it. Aye. In fact, I'd like to be able to have pie flavors, so I'm adding a proposal of my own: Mmm, My Favorite Kind [Jota] Immediately after a pie has been created, the active player may choose to rename that pie to any string beginning with "a " or "an " and ending with " pie". The token will still retain the function and capabilities of a generic pie. If the active player does not rename a pie before his or her turn ends, he or she forfeits the right to do so. > Pie In The Face I'd support this, but it's not technically a properly-formed proposal. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 20:43:09 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:43:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Soup and Sandwich (Was: Another Prize Proposal) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Carbol, Roger wrote: > Name: The Bus Driver's Lunchbox Since this wasn't really formally proposed, and since there were some loose ends to it (discussed on the MUD), I'm going to try proposing a more technical and complete version of that based on the #nomic discussion, in the form of four rules: Soup and Sandwiches [Jota] I. When this rule goes into effect, a prize token will be created with the name "The Bus Driver's Lunchbox". Its initial location will be Zrblm; it's initial destination will be the current location of the Magic Omnibus at the time the token is created. Its value will initially be indeterminate. Whenever brownie points must be awarded for the dropping of the token, its value will be determined by a die roll (and will again become indeterminate immediately afterward). II. The size (in sides) of the die to be used to determine the value of The Bus Driver's Lunchbox will be associated with that token. This size will initially be 18. After each time it's rolled, its size will be decremented by one, unless no such die is available, in which case it will be decremented until such a die is available. If this decrementing ever reaches zero, the token will cease to exist. III. After each time brownie points are awarded for the dropping of The Bus Driver's Lunchbox, its location will be changed to a room chosen by random selection from the list of all rooms not including the one it was just dropped in. IV. If at any time the destination of The Bus Driver's Lunchbox and the location of the Magic Omnibus location are not the same room, the destination of The Bus Driver's Lunchbox will immediately be set equal to the location of the Magic Omnibus. Note that, so as not to conflict with earlier rules, a player delivering the token still must name a destination for it. (That destination is just immediately overridden if it's not the location of the Omnibus.) -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 21:07:02 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:07:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [R] Argh. Bah. [Jota] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Argh. Bah. [Jota] > Whether or not a player is asleep at the switch shall be considered a part > of the state of the game. Supported explicitly by Ps, via omnibus by jwal, via time-out by baf, via Passive Voting by Roger, and via proposing by me. It goes into effect as Rule 93 one hour from the timestamp on this message. Is this the first proposition supported by a different method by every player? -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 21:42:57 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:42:57 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] Proposal: Tiny Paws In-Reply-To: References: <20030203111133.GB7285@spod-central.org> Message-ID: <20030203214257.GA10878@spod-central.org> Admiral Jota wrote: > On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > > > Tiny Paws [Psmith] > > > > The monkey may carry a maximum of one token at any one time. If the > > monkey is already carrying a token, it may not acquire another (by > > picking up, stealing, or any other means) until it has ceased to > > carry that token. > > I like this in principle, but perhaps it should only prohibit the monkey > acquiring items by actions taken by the uplink-holder? Or, even more > explicitly, to prevent any actions to be taken by the uplink-holder that > would result in the monkey carrying multiple objects? So that we don't > risk contradictions with any other rules that introduce objects to > inventory by other means... Nay to this proposal, then, and propose (trying to keep it clean of assumptions that the only way to control the monkey is the uplink, since we might want to add more): Tiny Paws II [Psmith] The monkey may carry a maximum of one token at any one time. If the monkey is already carrying a token, it may not acquire another until it has ceased to carry that token. No action may be taken to directly cause the monkey to acquire such a second token (by picking up stealing, or any other means). If a second token's location would be being set to the monkey by means other than a direct action, it will instead be set to the monkey's location. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with : : locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / : : To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] : From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 21:44:27 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:44:27 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Rock and Roll [Jota] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030203214426.GB10878@spod-central.org> Admiral Jota wrote: > A rule proposal: > > Rock and Roll [Jota] > If a die needs to be rolled to determine something, and it's not > specified who must roll that die, then any player may do so. If multiple > dice are rolled, the first valid roll posted to the list (and clearly > marked what it's for) will take precedence. Aye. I will however be voting nay on any proposal that involves a die being rolled without saying who's rolling it, but I'll approve this proposal on the same grounds as Rule 82. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with : : locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / : : To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] : From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 21:47:06 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:47:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] Proposal: Tiny Paws In-Reply-To: <20030203214257.GA10878@spod-central.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > > > Tiny Paws [Psmith] > Nay to this proposal, then, and propose (trying to keep it clean > of assumptions that the only way to control the monkey is the uplink, > since we might want to add more): I'll mark it dead. > Tiny Paws II [Psmith] Aye. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 21:48:48 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:48:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Rock and Roll [Jota] In-Reply-To: <20030203214426.GB10878@spod-central.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > Aye. I will however be voting nay on any proposal that involves a > die being rolled without saying who's rolling it, but I'll approve > this proposal on the same grounds as Rule 82. On the other hand, I'd be wary of a proposal that *did* say who was rolling it, because that runs into the previously-described problem of rules saying that a specific person 'must' do something. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 21:49:30 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:49:30 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [P] pie fighters In-Reply-To: <29076099.1044301768@cornelius> References: <29076099.1044301768@cornelius> Message-ID: <20030203214930.GC10878@spod-central.org> Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > A set of related proposals for adding further silliness to the game, but in > a hopefully at least somewhat useful way (and maybe creating an incentive > for not sticking in the same room as your servant quite all the time): > > Simple Simon Met A Pieman [jwalrus] > The game shall contain a pieman who has a location on the map. The initial > location of the pieman shall be Central Park. Aye. > Pieman, May I Taste Your Wares? [jwalrus] > If the active player's servant's location is the same as the location of > the pieman, the player may, as an action, elect to have his servant 'buy a > pie'. When this occurs, the player's brownie points tally shall decrease by > twenty points and a new token shall be created with the name "a pie" and > location equal to the active player's servant. The pieman's location shall > then change to a room chosen by random selection from the set of rooms > which are connected to the pieman's current location but not equal to it. Nay; it doesn't say who's responsible for conducting the random selection. > Pie In The Face As Jota notes, this isn't yet a proposal. But: > To throw the pie, the active player shall roll one die It isn't specified how many sides this die has. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with : : locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / : : To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] : From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 21:51:01 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:51:01 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [P] pie fighters In-Reply-To: References: <29076099.1044301768@cornelius> Message-ID: <20030203215100.GD10878@spod-central.org> Admiral Jota wrote: > Mmm, My Favorite Kind [Jota] Aye. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with : : locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / : : To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] : From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 21:54:57 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:54:57 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Rock and Roll [Jota] In-Reply-To: References: <20030203214426.GB10878@spod-central.org> Message-ID: <20030203215456.GE10878@spod-central.org> Admiral Jota wrote: > On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > > > Aye. I will however be voting nay on any proposal that involves a > > die being rolled without saying who's rolling it, but I'll approve > > this proposal on the same grounds as Rule 82. > > On the other hand, I'd be wary of a proposal that *did* say who was > rolling it, because that runs into the previously-described problem of > rules saying that a specific person 'must' do something. True. Let's say, then, that I will be voting nay on any proposal that involves an action including a random element, without stating that it's the active player who should be rolling the die to complete the performance of that action (and so, if he fails to do so, the action didn't take place). If other, non-action, effects require a die-roll, then this proposal looks a good way of handling it. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with : : locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / : : To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] : From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 21:55:55 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:55:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] pie fighters In-Reply-To: <20030203214930.GC10878@spod-central.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > > To throw the pie, the active player shall roll one die > > It isn't specified how many sides this die has. I noticed that, but then I realized it doesn't actually matter: any die with an even number of sides will have a 50/50 chance of success, and if the active player wants to reduce his/her chances by using a die with an odd number of sides, why not let him/her? -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 22:38:50 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:38:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Exploration bonus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The following has been supported by all players: Myself by proposing it, Jota and psmith through explicit Aye votes, jw by Omnibus, and RC through Passive Voting. It goes into effect one hour from now, at 6:40 PM EST. > Exploration bonus II [baf] > 1. Every room on the map will have a tally associated with it, called > "visits". This tally will initially be 0 for every room, and is > considered part of the state of the game. > 2. At the end of every turn, each room's visits tally will be incremented > by 1 for every player whose location was changed to that room during that > turn. > 3. Whenever a player's location changes, that player will receive a number > of brownie points equal to the new location's visits subtracted from the > largest visits tally of any room on the map. > > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic02 mailing list > Nomic02@wurb.com > http://wurb.com/mailman/listinfo/nomic02 > From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 22:47:28 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 22:47:28 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Soup and Sandwich (Was: Another Prize Proposal) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030203224728.GF10878@spod-central.org> Admiral Jota wrote: > > On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Carbol, Roger wrote: > > > Name: The Bus Driver's Lunchbox > > Since this wasn't really formally proposed, and since there were some > loose ends to it (discussed on the MUD), I'm going to try proposing a more > technical and complete version of that based on the #nomic discussion, in > the form of four rules: > > Soup and Sandwiches [Jota] Nay. A yet more technical and complete version, which attempts to cope with its being dropped by non-voluntary means (esploding bombs, being hit by a pie, etc; result is no points awarded, but no teleporting Lunchbox): Soup and Sandwiches II [Psmith] A proposal for the creation of one token, and the addition of three rules. I. A prize token shall be created with the name "The Bus Driver's Lunchbox". Its initial location will be Zrblm. Its initial destination will be the current location of the Magic Omnibus at the time the token is created. Its initial value will be 0. II. To voluntarily drop The Bus Driver's Lunchbox at its destination, the active player must i) roll a die: the value of the token for the purpose of awarding brownie points will be the result of this roll; and ii) choose a room by random selection from the list of all rooms not including the one it is being dropped in. Immediately after it has been dropped and points awarded, its value will revert to 0, and its location will be changed to the chosen room. III. The size (in sides) of the die to be used to determine the value of The Bus Driver's Lunchbox will be associated with that token. This size will initially be 18. After each time it's rolled, its size will be set to the size of the next smaller available die. If no such smaller die is available, the token will cease to exist. IV. If at any time the destination of The Bus Driver's Lunchbox and the location of the Magic Omnibus are not the same room, the destination of The Bus Driver's Lunchbox will immediately be set equal to the location of the Magic Omnibus. > Note that, so as not to conflict with earlier rules, a player delivering > the token still must name a destination for it. (That destination is just > immediately overridden if it's not the location of the Omnibus.) _May_ name a destination; if they don't, nothing particularly bad happens. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with : : locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / : : To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] : From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 23:08:42 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Adam Biltcliffe) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 23:08:42 -0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [P] pie fighters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41029727.1044313722@cornelius> > I noticed that, but then I realized it doesn't actually matter: > any die with an even number of sides will have a 50/50 chance of > success, and if the active player wants to reduce his/her chances > by using a die with an odd number of sides, why not let him/her? For the record, this was intentional. The bloody rule was long enough already. jw From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 23:13:29 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Adam Biltcliffe) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 23:13:29 -0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Soup and Sandwich (Was: Another Prize Proposal) In-Reply-To: <20030203224728.GF10878@spod-central.org> References: <20030203224728.GF10878@spod-central.org> Message-ID: <41317471.1044314009@cornelius> > Soup and Sandwiches II [Psmith] I don't object to your version, but I can't immediately see the flaw in Jota's proposal that your amended version aims to fix. jw From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 23:15:25 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Adam Biltcliffe) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 23:15:25 -0000 Subject: [Nomic02] Proposal: Tiny Paws In-Reply-To: <20030203214257.GA10878@spod-central.org> References: <20030203214257.GA10878@spod-central.org> Message-ID: <41432536.1044314124@cornelius> > Tiny Paws [Psmith] Declared dead, pursuant to Psmith's nay. > Tiny Paws II [Psmith] Aye. > Rock and Roll [Jota] Aye. From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 23:12:59 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:12:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Soup and Sandwich (Was: Another Prize Proposal) In-Reply-To: <41317471.1044314009@cornelius> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > > Soup and Sandwiches II [Psmith] > > I don't object to your version, but I can't immediately see the flaw in > Jota's proposal that your amended version aims to fix. Ps' version obligates the dropper to roll the value die, rather than allowing whatever player chooses to to do so. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 23:19:34 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Adam Biltcliffe) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 23:19:34 -0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [P] pie fighters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41681494.1044314373@cornelius> > Mmm, My Favorite Kind [Jota] Aye. > Pieman, May I Taste Your Wares? [jwalrus] I shall mark this dead on the basis of Psmith's objection. Reproposals: Pieman, May I Taste Your Wares Again? [jwalrus] If the active player's servant's location is the same as the location of the pieman, the player may, as an action, elect to have his servant 'buy a pie'. When this occurs, the player's brownie points tally shall decrease by twenty points and a new token shall be created with the name "a pie" and location equal to the active player's servant. The pieman's location shall then change to a room chosen by random selection by the active player from the set of rooms which are connected to the pieman's current location but not equal to it; the pie is not deemed to have been bought until this is done. Pie In The Face [jwalrus] As an action, the active player may have their servant throw a pie at any player, servant or the monkey. The servant may only throw a pie if their location has not been voluntarily changed this turn and their location may not be voluntarily changed after throwing a pie. The servant must be carrying at least one pie in order to throw it, and the pie may only be thrown at a target whose location is connected to but not equal to the throwing servant's location. To throw the pie, the active player shall roll one die; if the result is an even number the pie is deemed to have hit. Should the pie hit, the pie is removed from the game and the target of the pie-throw shall immediately drop all tokens they are carrying. If the pie does not hit, the pie's new location becomes equal to the location of the target. jw From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 23:20:20 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Adam Biltcliffe) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 23:20:20 -0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Soup and Sandwich (Was: Another Prize Proposal) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41728402.1044314420@cornelius> >> > Soup and Sandwiches II [Psmith] > > Ps' version obligates the dropper to roll the value die, rather > than allowing whatever player chooses to to do so. Ah, well. Aye, then. jw From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 23:34:22 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:34:22 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [P] pie fighters In-Reply-To: <41681494.1044314373@cornelius> References: <41681494.1044314373@cornelius> Message-ID: <20030203233421.GA11861@spod-central.org> Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > Pieman, May I Taste Your Wares Again? [jwalrus] Aye. > Pie In The Face [jwalrus] Aye. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with : : locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / : : To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] : From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 23:39:41 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:39:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Butter Fingers Insurance Message-ID: A proposal to remove a rule and add a replacement for it. The only change is the addition of the word 'voluntary'. Butter Fingers Insurance [Jota] Any player who voluntarily drops a prize token in its destination room will be awarded a number of brownie points equal to its value. Any player whose servant drops a prize token in its destination room will be awarded a number of brownie points equal to half of its value, rounded up. In either case, that player may now choose what room the token's destination will be. If no selection is made by the end of the player's turn, the token's destination is unchanged. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 23:41:09 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:41:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Soup and Sandwich (Was: Another Prize Proposal) In-Reply-To: <20030203224728.GF10878@spod-central.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > > Soup and Sandwiches [Jota] > > Nay. Dead. > Soup and Sandwiches II [Psmith] Aye. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 23:42:33 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:42:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] pie fighters In-Reply-To: <41681494.1044314373@cornelius> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > Pieman, May I Taste Your Wares Again? [jwalrus] Aye. > Pie In The Face [jwalrus] Aye. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 23:44:10 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:44:10 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Butter Fingers Insurance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030203234410.GB11861@spod-central.org> Admiral Jota wrote: > A proposal to remove a rule and add a replacement for it. The only change > is the addition of the word 'voluntary'. > > Butter Fingers Insurance [Jota] Unfortunately, you don't say which rule you're removing. > Any > player whose servant drops a prize token in its destination room will be > awarded a number of brownie points equal to half of its value, rounded > up. Shouldn't this also be specified to be voluntary dropping? Vote nay, to allow these to be fixed. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with : : locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / : : To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] : From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 23:48:43 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:48:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Butter Fingers Insurance In-Reply-To: <20030203234410.GB11861@spod-central.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > Vote nay, to allow these to be fixed. Arr. You're right on all counts, of course. Marking dead. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 23:45:00 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:45:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] Proposal: Batteries Not Included In-Reply-To: <20030203112342.GD7285@spod-central.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > Batteries Not Included [Psmith] Aye. From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 23:46:16 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:46:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Rock and Roll [Jota] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Admiral Jota wrote: > Rock and Roll [Jota] Aye, as a safety measure, although I intend to vote against any rule that would make this necessary. From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 23:47:14 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:47:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] Proposal: Tiny Paws In-Reply-To: <20030203214257.GA10878@spod-central.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > Tiny Paws II [Psmith] Aye. From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 23:54:19 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:54:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Butter Fingers Insurance, Homeowner's Edition Message-ID: Butter Fingers Insurance, Homeowner's Edition [Jota] I. Remove Rule 58. II. Any player who voluntarily drops a prize token in its destination room will be awarded a number of brownie points equal to its value. Any player who voluntarily causes his or her servant to drop a prize token in its destination room will be awarded a number of brownie points equal to half of its value, rounded up. In either case, that player may now choose what room the token's destination will be. If no selection is made by the end of the player's turn, the token's destination is unchanged. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 23:49:58 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:49:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Rock and Roll [Jota] In-Reply-To: <20030203215456.GE10878@spod-central.org> Message-ID: > On the other hand, I'd be wary of a proposal that *did* say who was > rolling it, because that runs into the previously-described problem of > rules saying that a specific person 'must' do something. It's been noted in discussion on the MUD, but: a rule stating who rolls the dice doesn't necessarily involve 'must'. Dice-rolling can be the means by which a voluntary action is performed. From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 23:55:59 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:55:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Rock and Roll [Jota] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Carl Muckenhoupt wrote: > > On the other hand, I'd be wary of a proposal that *did* say who was > > rolling it, because that runs into the previously-described problem of > > rules saying that a specific person 'must' do something. > > It's been noted in discussion on the MUD, but: a rule stating who > rolls the dice doesn't necessarily involve 'must'. Dice-rolling > can be the means by which a voluntary action is performed. Yeah, the discussion on-MUD was a response to the messages on the list :) -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 3 23:58:24 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:58:24 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] Ratified: Paws and Batteries Message-ID: <20030203235823.GA12026@spod-central.org> The following proposals have been agreed unanimously and will come into effect as Rules 100 and 101 in one hour from the timestamp of this post. implicit aye: Psmith (proponent), Roger (passive) explicit aye: jwalrus, Jota, baf Tiny Paws II [Psmith] The monkey may carry a maximum of one token at any one time. If the monkey is already carrying a token, it may not acquire another until it has ceased to carry that token. No action may be taken to directly cause the monkey to acquire such a second token (by picking up stealing, or any other means). If a second token's location would be being set to the monkey by means other than a direct action, it will instead be set to the monkey's location. Batteries Not Included [Psmith] The mind-control satellite uplink shall have a tally associated with it known as its "power supply charge level", with an initial value of 10. Each time another game entity is caused to do something by virtue of the active player holding this token, the tally shall be decremented by one; no such action may be taken if the tally is zero. If the location of the mind-control satellite uplink is Embedded CPU, and has been continuously for 48 hours, its power supply charge level will be reset to 10. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with : : locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / : : To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] : From nomic02@wurb.com Tue Feb 4 00:00:40 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 00:00:40 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Butter Fingers Insurance, Homeowner's Edition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030204000039.GB12026@spod-central.org> Admiral Jota wrote: > > Butter Fingers Insurance, Homeowner's Edition [Jota] Aye. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with : : locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / : : To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] : From nomic02@wurb.com Tue Feb 4 00:01:15 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:01:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Rock and Roll [Jota] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The following proposal has been supported explicitly by Ps, jwal, and baf, and implicitly by myself and RC. It goes into effect as Rule 102 one hour from this timestamp. > Rock and Roll [Jota] > If a die needs to be rolled to determine something, and it's not > specified who must roll that die, then any player may do so. If multiple > dice are rolled, the first valid roll posted to the list (and clearly > marked what it's for) will take precedence. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Tue Feb 4 01:27:26 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:27:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Butter Fingers Insurance, Homeowner's Edition In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Admiral Jota wrote: > I. Remove Rule 58. Aye From nomic02@wurb.com Tue Feb 4 02:16:35 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:16:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Butter Fingers Insurance, Homeowner's Edition In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Carl Muckenhoupt wrote: > On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Admiral Jota wrote: > > I. Remove Rule 58. > Aye Did you quote the wrong line? -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Tue Feb 4 02:49:26 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:49:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [T] What goes around... Message-ID: I'll move the monkey from Washington, DC to Saturn (decrementing the uplink's power to nine), and then steal the scarlet emerald from it. Next, I move myself to Under the High Wall (on a resting) (scoring a zero point exploration bonus) and drop the emerald there (scoring sixteen brownie points). I'll take the opportunity to set its destination to The, to make a trip there a bit more profitable. Finally, I move Grunk to Mornington Crescent and end my turn. And with that, Under tHW(oar) gets its visits tally incremented to one. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Tue Feb 4 03:01:44 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 22:01:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [T] What goes around... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oh, and as a side note, I think that Hugo has been sent to the Servants' Quarters, for being in Saturn with me at the end of Roger's turn. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Tue Feb 4 03:25:09 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 22:25:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Butter Fingers Insurance, Homeowner's Edition In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Fine: Aye to Butter Fingers Insurance, Homeowner's Edition. But I don't think the rules specify what you have to say in addition to Aye, as long as you're replying to something. From nomic02@wurb.com Tue Feb 4 03:55:48 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 22:55:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [T] What goes around... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I move myself to the Lounge, earning one point. My turn endeth. From nomic02@wurb.com Tue Feb 4 10:06:20 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:06:20 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] Turn: Psmith's turn Message-ID: <20030204100620.GB15355@spod-central.org> I move to the North Pole, scoring 1 brownie point by Rule 99, but incurring the Elf Tax and losing 10 brownie points and causing each other player to gain 5. I move Gideon Crawle to the North Pole. I cause Gideon Crawle to drop the golden corknut. I pick up the golden corknut. My turn is completed. It is jwalrus' turn. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with : : locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / : : To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] : From nomic02@wurb.com Tue Feb 4 10:14:43 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:14:43 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] Proposal: Brigadoon Message-ID: <20030204101443.GD15355@spod-central.org> A proposal for one new room and one new rule. Brigadoon [Psmith] There shall exist a room on the map named Brigadoon. Brigadoon shall be connected to other rooms as normal for the duration of every Tuesday, between midnight GMT and the next midnight GMT. At any other time, it shall be considered not to be connected to any other room. (The Magic Omnibus can find Brigadoon, note; it's magic, after all.) -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with : : locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / : : To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] : From nomic02@wurb.com Tue Feb 4 10:21:20 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 05:21:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] Proposal: Brigadoon In-Reply-To: <20030204101443.GD15355@spod-central.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > Brigadoon [Psmith] Aye. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Tue Feb 4 22:37:42 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Adam Biltcliffe) Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 22:37:42 -0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Butter Fingers Insurance, Homeowner's Edition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <32593977.1044398262@cornelius> > Butter Fingers Insurance, Homeowner's Edition [Jota] Aye. > Brigadoon [Psmith] Aye. From nomic02@wurb.com Tue Feb 4 22:44:19 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Adam Biltcliffe) Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 22:44:19 -0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [T] jwalrus' turn Message-ID: <32990968.1044398659@cornelius> I move to Washington, DC, scoring one point. The Baron moves to the Servants' Quarters. My turn ends. Washington, DC's visits tally is now 1. jw From nomic02@wurb.com Tue Feb 4 22:49:51 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Adam Biltcliffe) Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 22:49:51 -0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [P] two proposals Message-ID: <33323316.1044398991@cornelius> Yet Another Loophole [jwalrus] I. Remove Rule 59. II. Enact the following: "After a player has been awarded brownie points for a prize token being dropped in its destination room, that player is prohibited from taking any action which would cause that token to come into the possession of that player or that player's servant until after the token has been picked up by at least one other player or servant." (At least, I think this loophole is still open ... feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.) Free Trade [jwalrus] Enact the following: "Any player may post an intention to donate a given number of brownie points to a specified other player. When this is done the donor's brownie points shall immediately decrease by that number and the recipient's brownie points shall immediately increase by the same number." From nomic02@wurb.com Wed Feb 5 03:55:33 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:55:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Butter Fingers Insurance, Homeowner's Edition In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Butter Fingers Insurance, Homeowner's Edition [Jota] > > I. Remove Rule 58. > > II. Any player who voluntarily drops a prize token in its destination room > will be awarded a number of brownie points equal to its value. Any > player who voluntarily causes his or her servant to drop a prize token > in its destination room will be awarded a number of brownie points > equal to half of its value, rounded up. In either case, that player > may now choose what room the token's destination will be. If no > selection is made by the end of the player's turn, the token's > destination is unchanged. Aye. The above proposal has been supported by all players (implicitly by RC, explicitly by the rest of us), and will go into effect one hour from now. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Wed Feb 5 04:10:28 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 23:10:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] two proposals In-Reply-To: <33323316.1044398991@cornelius> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > Yet Another Loophole [jwalrus] Aye. > (At least, I think this loophole is still open ... feel free to correct me > if I'm wrong.) Whether it does or not, that seems like a useful measure anyway, in case similar loopholes get opened in the future. > Free Trade [jwalrus] Aye. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Wed Feb 5 09:15:54 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:15:54 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [P] two proposals In-Reply-To: <33323316.1044398991@cornelius> References: <33323316.1044398991@cornelius> Message-ID: <20030205091554.GA22955@spod-central.org> Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > Yet Another Loophole [jwalrus] Aye. (I note that this doesn't specify whether the token is coming into possession as a direct or an indirect consequence of the action, which implies that it forbids both. This could possibly be more wide-ranging than it appears. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing.) > Free Trade [jwalrus] > Enact the following: > "Any player may post an intention to donate a given number of brownie > points to a specified other player. When this is done the donor's brownie > points shall immediately decrease by that number and the recipient's > brownie points shall immediately increase by the same number." Nay. "I donate -250 points to Jota" would be a perfectly valid proposal under this rule and Rule 42, and would win me the game immediately. (Not that I'd mind that, but it seems a little cheap.) -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with : : locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / : : To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] : From nomic02@wurb.com Wed Feb 5 14:57:05 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Adam Biltcliffe) Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 14:57:05 -0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [P] two proposals In-Reply-To: <20030205091554.GA22955@spod-central.org> References: <20030205091554.GA22955@spod-central.org> Message-ID: <1891740.1044457025@cornelius> > Nay. "I donate -250 points to Jota" would be a perfectly valid > proposal under this rule and Rule 42, and would win me the game > immediately. You have a point. I declare "Free Trade [jwalrus]" dead and propose the following alternative: Nearly Free Trade [jwalrus] "Any player may post an intention to donate a given number of brownie points to a specified other player. The other player may accept the donation by posting intent to do so, at which point the donor's brownie points shall immediately decrease by that number and the recipient's brownie points shall immediately increase by the same number. A player may retract any donation which has not yet been accepted by the other player by posting intent to do so." (My interpretation of Rule 42 is that it would forbid a player from accepting a negative donation if it would cause their brownie points to become negative. If you disagree, feel free to make an alternate proposal.) jw From nomic02@wurb.com Wed Feb 5 14:56:56 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:56:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] two proposals In-Reply-To: <1891740.1044457025@cornelius> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > Nearly Free Trade [jwalrus] Aye. > (My interpretation of Rule 42 is that it would forbid a player from > accepting a negative donation if it would cause their brownie points to > become negative. If you disagree, feel free to make an alternate proposal.) I'd refuse a negative donation anyway, so. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Wed Feb 5 15:07:55 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 15:07:55 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [P] two proposals In-Reply-To: <1891740.1044457025@cornelius> References: <20030205091554.GA22955@spod-central.org> <1891740.1044457025@cornelius> Message-ID: <20030205150755.GC24660@spod-central.org> Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > Nearly Free Trade [jwalrus] Aye. (It does have the slight flaw of not having an expiry date, so you could theoretically have unclaimed donations hanging around indefinitely; this seems unlikely, though.) > (My interpretation of Rule 42 is that it would forbid a player from > accepting a negative donation if it would cause their brownie points to > become negative. If you disagree, feel free to make an alternate proposal.) I agree with this interpretation. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with : : locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / : : To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] : From nomic02@wurb.com Wed Feb 5 15:29:31 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Adam Biltcliffe) Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 15:29:31 -0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [P] two proposals In-Reply-To: <20030205150755.GC24660@spod-central.org> References: <20030205150755.GC24660@spod-central.org> Message-ID: <3838429.1044458971@cornelius> > Aye. (It does have the slight flaw of not having an expiry date, > so you could theoretically have unclaimed donations hanging > around indefinitely; this seems unlikely, though.) True, but I'm assuming that in practice if someone expressed an intent not to accept a donation, the donor would retract the offer. jw From nomic02@wurb.com Wed Feb 5 15:34:25 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:34:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] two proposals In-Reply-To: <3838429.1044458971@cornelius> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > > Aye. (It does have the slight flaw of not having an expiry date, > > so you could theoretically have unclaimed donations hanging > > around indefinitely; this seems unlikely, though.) > > True, but I'm assuming that in practice if someone expressed an intent not > to accept a donation, the donor would retract the offer. And until recently, proposals didn't time out either, and it didn't cause any problems. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Wed Feb 5 20:37:35 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 15:37:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] two proposals In-Reply-To: <33323316.1044398991@cornelius> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > Yet Another Loophole [jwalrus] Aye. > Free Trade [jwalrus] Aye. From nomic02@wurb.com Wed Feb 5 20:38:40 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 15:38:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] two proposals In-Reply-To: <1891740.1044457025@cornelius> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > Nearly Free Trade [jwalrus] Aye. From nomic02@wurb.com Wed Feb 5 22:18:07 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:18:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] Proposal: Brigadoon In-Reply-To: <20030204101443.GD15355@spod-central.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > A proposal for one new room and one new rule. > > Brigadoon [Psmith] Aye. And I note that Brigadoon, when connected, would be connected to: Blasted Heath Zrblm the Servants' Quarters Embedded CPU The North Pole West of House West of Nowhere If this seems like too many connections, we could change the new room to Vineta, which connects only to Central Park, Embedded CPU, Under the High Wall (on a resting), and Blasted Heath. Which isn't much fewer, but there you are. Vineta, being folklore, has a highly variable story, but it has elements of Brigadoon, as well as both Atlantis and the Bottle Imp. The people of Vineta were famously decadent, feeding cake to pigs, letting their children play with gold, and so on. In punishment, the city was sunk beneath the Baltic Sea and the people sent to Hell. Once every hundred years, it rises again, complete with its population, who have the opportunity to break the curse by selling something for one pfennig to someone born on a Sunday. (There is a story of a traveller who spies a pfennig on the road, but doesn't pick it up. He then wanders into Vineta, where people are desperate to sell him the most marvelous wares, but refuse to take more than a pfennig. The traveller rushes back to where he saw the pfennig, but by the time he gets back, Vineta is gone.) Also, on St. John's Day, the bells of the sunken city ring, luring sailors to their doom. (Thanks go to Gunther for googling German folklore sites for details.) From nomic02@wurb.com Wed Feb 5 22:19:29 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:19:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] pie fighters In-Reply-To: <29076099.1044301768@cornelius> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > Simple Simon Met A Pieman [jwalrus] Aye. From nomic02@wurb.com Wed Feb 5 22:21:19 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:21:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] pie fighters In-Reply-To: <41681494.1044314373@cornelius> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > Pieman, May I Taste Your Wares Again? [jwalrus] Aye. > Pie In The Face [jwalrus] Aye. Although both of these rules are dismayingly long. I'd prefer them to be split into shorter rules, but I don't see a good way to do this. From nomic02@wurb.com Wed Feb 5 22:33:31 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:33:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Soup and Sandwich (Was: Another Prize Proposal) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Admiral Jota wrote: > Soup and Sandwiches [Jota] Aye. From nomic02@wurb.com Wed Feb 5 22:34:18 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:34:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Soup and Sandwich (Was: Another Prize Proposal) In-Reply-To: <20030203224728.GF10878@spod-central.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > Soup and Sandwiches II [Psmith] Aye. From nomic02@wurb.com Wed Feb 5 22:39:52 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:39:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Bottle Imp Message-ID: Proposal: Bottle Imp [baf] Create a token with name "Bottle Imp" and location Attic. From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Feb 6 08:24:11 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 03:24:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Bottle Imp In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Carl Muckenhoupt wrote: > Proposal: > Bottle Imp [baf] > Create a token with name "Bottle Imp" and location Attic. Aye. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Feb 6 08:27:55 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 03:27:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [T] For everything (turn, turn, turn)... Message-ID: Looks like it's my turn again, so I move myself from Uthwoar to Embedded CPU and Grunk from Mornington Crescent to the Servants' Quarters. And I end my turn. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Feb 6 08:48:53 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 03:48:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Beam me up, Scotty Message-ID: A fairly random thought. A proposal for three rules. Feel free to shoot thme down. Beam me up, Scotty [Jota] I. There will exist a token called a "personal teleporter". Associated with it will be either the status "burned out" or "fully charged". Its initial status is "burned out", and its initial location is the Blasted Heath. II. If the active player is carrying a personal teleporter whose status is "fully charged", that player may choose to invoke the teleporter as an action. Invoking the teleporter involves setting the teleporter's status to "burned out", dropping the teleporter, and then setting one's location to any room on the map of one's choice (in that order). If the player is forbidden to do any of those things, then this action may not take place. The personal teleporter may not be used if the player has moved in the same turn, and the player may not be moved by any other action in the same turn after using the personal teleporter. III. If a time bomb esplodes while its location is the same as that of a personal teleporter, then that teleporter's status will be set to "fully charged". -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Feb 6 10:11:16 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:11:16 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] Proposal: Brigadoon In-Reply-To: References: <20030204101443.GD15355@spod-central.org> Message-ID: <20030206101115.GA31228@spod-central.org> Carl Muckenhoupt wrote: > On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > > > A proposal for one new room and one new rule. > > > > Brigadoon [Psmith] > > Aye. And I note that Brigadoon, when connected, would be connected to: > > Blasted Heath > Zrblm > the Servants' Quarters > Embedded CPU > The North Pole > West of House > West of Nowhere Also Iraq. > If this seems like too many connections, we could change the new room to > Vineta, which connects only to Central Park, Embedded CPU, Under the High > Wall (on a resting), and Blasted Heath. Which isn't much fewer, but there > you are. I don't think there's any problem with it being well-connected; some rooms have few connections all the time, Brigadoon has many connections some of the time. (And then there's the North Pole). Thanks for the Vineta story, though :-) -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with : : locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / : : To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] : From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Feb 6 10:27:34 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:27:34 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] Ratified: Soup, Sandwiches, and Brigadoon Message-ID: <20030206102733.GA31339@spod-central.org> The following proposals have been agreed unanimously and will come into effect creating one new token, one new room, and Rules 104 through 107, in one hour from the timestamp of this post. implicit aye: Psmith (proponent), Roger (passive) explicit aye: jwalrus, Jota, baf Soup and Sandwiches II [Psmith] I. A prize token shall be created with the name "The Bus Driver's Lunchbox". Its initial location will be Zrblm. Its initial destination will be the current location of the Magic Omnibus at the time the token is created. Its initial value will be 0. II. To voluntarily drop The Bus Driver's Lunchbox at its destination, the active player must a) roll a die: the value of the token for the purpose of awarding brownie points will be the result of this roll; and b) choose a room by random selection from the list of all rooms not including the one it is being dropped in. Immediately after it has been dropped and points awarded, its value will revert to 0, and its location will be changed to the chosen room. III. The size (in sides) of the die to be used to determine the value of The Bus Driver's Lunchbox will be associated with that token. This size will initially be 18. After each time it's rolled, its size will be set to the size of the next smaller available die. If no such smaller die is available, the token will cease to exist. IV. If at any time the destination of The Bus Driver's Lunchbox and the location of the Magic Omnibus are not the same room, the destination of The Bus Driver's Lunchbox will immediately be set equal to the location of the Magic Omnibus. Brigadoon [Psmith] There shall exist a room on the map named Brigadoon. Brigadoon shall be connected to other rooms as normal for the duration of every Tuesday, between midnight GMT and the next midnight GMT. At any other time, it shall be considered not to be connected to any other room. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with : : locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / : : To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] : From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Feb 6 10:34:57 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:34:57 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Bottle Imp In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030206103456.GA31414@spod-central.org> Carl Muckenhoupt wrote: > Proposal: > Bottle Imp [baf] > Create a token with name "Bottle Imp" and location Attic. Vote withheld until I see the proposals for what you intend the Bottle Imp to do :-) -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with : : locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / : : To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] : From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Feb 6 10:47:02 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:47:02 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Beam me up, Scotty In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030206104702.GB31414@spod-central.org> Admiral Jota wrote: > A fairly random thought. A proposal for three rules. Feel free to shoot > thme down. > > Beam me up, Scotty [Jota] Aye, though > The personal teleporter may not be used if the > player has moved in the same turn, and the player may not be moved by > any other action in the same turn after using the personal teleporter. as I read it, this allows a teleporter and the Omnibus to be used in the same turn (in either order). Both cost (one effort, one points), so this isn't necessarily a bad thing. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with : : locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / : : To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] : From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Feb 6 11:08:42 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:08:42 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] Proposal: It's Time! Message-ID: <20030206110842.GA31587@spod-central.org> We've been relying on times since Rule 10, but I don't believe they've ever formally been made part of the state of the game. So, a proposal for a new rule: It's Time! [Psmith] The current time shall be considered part of the state of the game. Reasonable divergence of clocks shall not be considered to be deception about the current state of the game; however, if there is disagreement, the system clock of the wurb.com mailserver shall be considered to be authoritative. The current time may be expressed in terms of whichever timezone a player wishes. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with : : locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / : : To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] : From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Feb 6 18:47:18 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:47:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [T] For everything (turn, turn, turn)... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, Admiral Jota wrote: > Looks like it's my turn again, so I move myself from Uthwoar to Embedded > CPU and Grunk from Mornington Crescent to the Servants' Quarters. And I > end my turn. And I end mine. From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Feb 6 18:50:23 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:50:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Bottle Imp In-Reply-To: <20030206103456.GA31414@spod-central.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > Vote withheld until I see the proposals for what you intend the > Bottle Imp to do :-) Well. The obvious thing is for it to grant brownie points as long as it's in your possession, but prevent you from winning. But other things are possible. From nomic02@wurb.com Fri Feb 7 00:57:29 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Adam Biltcliffe) Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 00:57:29 -0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Bottle Imp In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <26278276.1044579449@cornelius> > Bottle Imp [baf] > Create a token with name "Bottle Imp" and location Attic. Aye. I'm more than happy to let it be created and then argue about what it does. jw From nomic02@wurb.com Fri Feb 7 00:58:34 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Adam Biltcliffe) Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 00:58:34 -0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [P] pie fighters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <26342838.1044579514@cornelius> > Aye. Although both of these rules are dismayingly long. I'd > prefer them to be split into shorter rules, but I don't see a > good way to do this. I know; I split them as best I could but when you introduce a mechanism like this there's only so far you can divide it before the individual rules cease to make sense. jw From nomic02@wurb.com Fri Feb 7 10:00:36 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 10:00:36 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] Turn: Psmith's turn Message-ID: <20030207100036.GB39168@spod-central.org> I move to the Lounge. Its visits tally is now 2. I drop the golden corknut. I gain 27 brownie points. (Woohoo!) I set the destination of the golden corknut to the North Pole. I move Gideon Crawle to West of Nowhere. Crawle picks up the *ROYAL HONEY*. My turn is completed. It is jwalrus' turn. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with : : locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / : : To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] : From nomic02@wurb.com Fri Feb 7 10:04:51 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 10:04:51 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] Ratified: Soup, Sandwiches, and Brigadoon In-Reply-To: <20030206102733.GA31339@spod-central.org> References: <20030206102733.GA31339@spod-central.org> Message-ID: <20030207100450.GC39168@spod-central.org> Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > The following proposals have been agreed unanimously and will come > into effect creating one new token, one new room, and Rules 104 through > 107, in one hour from the timestamp of this post. baf - you have this as Rules 104 through 108 on the website. Your Rule 104 is just a token creation under Rule 54, not an actual rule. (Yes, the subsection numbering of S&SII could probably have been clearer on that; I ought to have renumbered after separating it out from Jota's version.) -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with : : locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / : : To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] : From nomic02@wurb.com Fri Feb 7 10:06:02 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 10:06:02 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Bottle Imp In-Reply-To: <26278276.1044579449@cornelius> References: <26278276.1044579449@cornelius> Message-ID: <20030207100602.GD39168@spod-central.org> Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > >Bottle Imp [baf] > >Create a token with name "Bottle Imp" and location Attic. > > Aye. I'm more than happy to let it be created and then argue about what it > does. Fair enough, if everyone else is happy, aye; I just didn't see all that much point in creating an inert token. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with : : locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / : : To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] : From nomic02@wurb.com Fri Feb 7 10:25:55 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 05:25:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Bottle Imp In-Reply-To: <20030207100602.GD39168@spod-central.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > > Aye. I'm more than happy to let it be created and then argue about what it > > does. > > Fair enough, if everyone else is happy, aye; I just didn't see all that > much point in creating an inert token. Must resist... can't hold back proposal... He [Jota] A token will exist with the name "helium balloon", initial location The House of Commons. Sorry. I didn't want to do that, but it couldn't be helped. Also, should the connections from Brigadoon perhaps be dotted or dashed lines? -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Fri Feb 7 16:38:54 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 11:38:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Bottle Imp In-Reply-To: <20030207100602.GD39168@spod-central.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > Fair enough, if everyone else is happy, aye; I just didn't see all that > much point in creating an inert token. It's happened before. The mind-control satellite uplink didn't have any special properties when it was created. From nomic02@wurb.com Fri Feb 7 16:41:28 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 11:41:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] Ratified: Soup, Sandwiches, and Brigadoon In-Reply-To: <20030207100450.GC39168@spod-central.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > baf - you have this as Rules 104 through 108 on the website. Your > Rule 104 is just a token creation under Rule 54, not an actual > rule. My confusion results from the fact that the original Soup & Sandwich proposal was explicitly formed of four rules. I will fix it. From nomic02@wurb.com Sat Feb 8 15:11:18 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Adam Biltcliffe) Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 15:11:18 -0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [T] oops Message-ID: <1963072.1044717078@cornelius> Due to circumstances beyond my control I have missed my turn. It has been Roger's turn since 10:00am this morning. jw From nomic02@wurb.com Sun Feb 9 00:08:04 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 19:08:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] Proposal: It's Time! In-Reply-To: <20030206110842.GA31587@spod-central.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > The current time shall be considered part of the state of the game. > Reasonable divergence of clocks shall not be considered to be deception > about the current state of the game; however, if there is disagreement, > the system clock of the wurb.com mailserver shall be considered to be > authoritative. The current time may be expressed in terms of whichever > timezone a player wishes. I'm going to give this a nay. While it may be a good idea to establish an authoritative time standard, making that standard something under the control of one of the players is a temptation to abuse. From nomic02@wurb.com Sun Feb 9 00:12:01 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 19:12:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Bottle Imp In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The following proposal goes into effect in one hour, at 8:15 PM EST. It received aye votes from jota, jwalrus, and psmith, and RC voted passively by being on the passive voters list. Bottle Imp [baf] Create a token with name "Bottle Imp" and location Attic. From nomic02@wurb.com Sun Feb 9 00:13:15 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 19:13:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] Proposal: It's Time! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I change my mind. As it stands, it is simply a summary of how we're already doing things, and I consider it a good thing to have established procedure spelled out where it can be altered. Aye. From nomic02@wurb.com Sun Feb 9 00:23:52 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 00:23:52 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] Proposal: It's Time! In-Reply-To: References: <20030206110842.GA31587@spod-central.org> Message-ID: <20030209002351.GA54033@spod-central.org> Carl Muckenhoupt wrote: > On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > > > The current time shall be considered part of the state of the game. > > Reasonable divergence of clocks shall not be considered to be deception > > about the current state of the game; however, if there is disagreement, > > the system clock of the wurb.com mailserver shall be considered to be > > authoritative. The current time may be expressed in terms of whichever > > timezone a player wishes. > > I'm going to give this a nay. While it may be a good idea to establish an > authoritative time standard, making that standard something under the > control of one of the players is a temptation to abuse. Hmm. I could make it "any clock synched by NTP to an atomic timeserver", if that'd help. If this applies to mail.wurb.com in its normal operation, so much the better. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with : : locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / : : To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] : From nomic02@wurb.com Sun Feb 9 00:35:19 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 00:35:19 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] Another Prize Proposal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030209003518.GB54033@spod-central.org> Carbol, Roger wrote: > Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 15:47:54 -0700 > From: "Carbol, Roger" > Subject: [Nomic02] Another Prize Proposal I believe that this was the last post made by Roger to the list, and that he consequently incurred one demerit under the terms of Rule 24 at 2003-02-07 15:47:54 MST. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with : : locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / : : To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] : From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 10 08:27:08 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 03:27:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [T] Mmm. In-Reply-To: <1963072.1044717078@cornelius> Message-ID: I *think* I'm in time. I move from the CPU to Zrblm, scoring two points. I drop the firecracker, scoring another five points. Then I pick up the lunchbox and end my turn. Are there any proposals out there right now waiting for my vote? Also, whatever happened to the pie thing? Did it get killed when I wasn't looking? -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 10 09:28:28 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:28:28 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [T] Mmm. In-Reply-To: References: <1963072.1044717078@cornelius> Message-ID: <20030210092828.GA66658@spod-central.org> Admiral Jota wrote: > I *think* I'm in time. By about an hour and a half, I think. > Are there any proposals out there right now waiting for my vote? Also, > whatever happened to the pie thing? Did it get killed when I wasn't > looking? What I believe to be the current status of proposals: Simple Simon Met A Pieman [jwalrus] Pieman, May I Taste Your Wares Again? [jwalrus] Pie In The Face [jwalrus] Yet Another Loophole [jwalrus] Nearly Free Trade [jwalrus] are all unanimously agreed and waiting for ratification. The first to lapse under Rule 61 will be Simple Simon and Pie in the Face, at 19:49 GMT tonight. Mmm, My Favorite Kind [Jota] has been unanimously agreed (baf's vote being a default) and is waiting for ratification. It will lapse at 20:03 GMT tonight. Beam me up, Scotty [Jota] has been unanimously agreed (baf's and jwalrus' votes being defaults) and is waiting for ratification. It's Time! [Psmith] has been unanimously agreed (Jota's and jwalrus' votes being defaults) and is waiting for ratification. I'm just waiting for comments on the reformulation I suggested, but if everyone's happy with it as it stands, I'll ratify. He [Jota] has just the proponent's and RC's passive vote aye; everyone's else vote will default to aye in about an hour from now. I just haven't voted from, umm, inertia :-) But I'll do so now: aye. I am not aware of any other outstanding proposals. Let me know if there are any, so I can vote on them :-) -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with : : locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / : : To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] : From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 10 10:16:18 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 05:16:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] pie fighters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Mmm, My Favorite Kind [Jota] > Immediately after a pie has been created, the active player may choose > to rename that pie to any string beginning with "a " or "an " and ending > with " pie". The token will still retain the function and capabilities > of a generic pie. If the active player does not rename a pie before his > or her turn ends, he or she forfeits the right to do so. I guess this can be ratified without jwal's rules, since the method for creating pies will just remain unspecified for the time being. So, ratified by passive votes from baf, RC, and me -- and active votes from Ps and jwal. To go into effect as a rule one hour from now. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 10 10:18:05 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 05:18:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Beam me up, Scotty In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Beam me up, Scotty [Jota] > > I. There will exist a token called a "personal teleporter". Associated > with it will be either the status "burned out" or "fully charged". Its > initial status is "burned out", and its initial location is the Blasted > Heath. > > II. If the active player is carrying a personal teleporter whose status is > "fully charged", that player may choose to invoke the teleporter as an > action. Invoking the teleporter involves setting the teleporter's > status to "burned out", dropping the teleporter, and then setting > one's location to any room on the map of one's choice (in that order). > If the player is forbidden to do any of those things, then this action > may not take place. The personal teleporter may not be used if the > player has moved in the same turn, and the player may not be moved by > any other action in the same turn after using the personal teleporter. > > III. If a time bomb esplodes while its location is the same as that of a > personal teleporter, then that teleporter's status will be set to > "fully charged". As there seem to be no objections, this proposal is ratified as three new rules (active aye from Ps, passive from everyone else), to go into effect one hour from now. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 10 10:20:50 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 05:20:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] Proposal: It's Time! In-Reply-To: <20030209002351.GA54033@spod-central.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Feb 2003, Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > Hmm. I could make it "any clock synched by NTP to an atomic > timeserver", if that'd help. If this applies to mail.wurb.com in its > normal operation, so much the better. I think I like that suggestion. Especially if it applies to mail.wurb.com. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 10 10:26:15 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 05:26:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [T] Mmm. In-Reply-To: <20030210092828.GA66658@spod-central.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > He [Jota] > has just the proponent's and RC's passive vote aye; everyone's else > vote will default to aye in about an hour from now. I just haven't > voted from, umm, inertia :-) But I'll do so now: aye. As it was mainly created as a terrible but unavoidable pun on the phrase "inert token", I wouldn't complain if it were voted down. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 10 23:42:03 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Adam Biltcliffe) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 23:42:03 -0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [R] new rules + [P] ones I missed Message-ID: <38968223.1044920523@cornelius> The following two proposals have been explicitly ratified by all players (passively by Roger, actively by everyone else) and will come into effect one hour from now: Yet Another Loophole [jwalrus] I. Remove Rule 59. II. Enact the following: "After a player has been awarded brownie points for a prize token being dropped in its destination room, that player is prohibited from taking any action which would cause that token to come into the possession of that player or that player's servant until after the token has been picked up by at least one other player or servant." Nearly Free Trade [jwalrus] "Any player may post an intention to donate a given number of brownie points to a specified other player. The other player may accept the donation by posting intent to do so, at which point the donor's brownie points shall immediately decrease by that number and the recipient's brownie points shall immediately increase by the same number. A player may retract any donation which has not yet been accepted by the other player by posting intent to do so." When this proposal comes into effect the above changes to the rules shall take place; no other changes to the gamestate shall occur. The following three proposals have all lapsed due to lack of ratification, because I've been busy and kept forgetting to post ratifications: Simple Simon Met A Pieman [jwalrus] Pieman, May I Taste Your Wares Again? [jwalrus] Pie In The Face [jwalrus] Since the overall opinion seemed to be in favour of them I'll repropose all three below; the text of the proposals has not been changed. Simple Simon Met Another Pieman [jwalrus] The game shall contain a pieman who has a location on the map. The initial location of the pieman shall be Central Park. Pieman, May I Taste Your Wares Yet Again? [jwalrus] If the active player's servant's location is the same as the location of the pieman, the player may, as an action, elect to have his servant 'buy a pie'. When this occurs, the player's brownie points tally shall decrease by twenty points and a new token shall be created with the name "a pie" and location equal to the active player's servant. The pieman's location shall then change to a room chosen by random selection by the active player from the set of rooms which are connected to the pieman's current location but not equal to it; the pie is not deemed to have been bought until this is done. A Second Pie In The Face [jwalrus] As an action, the active player may have their servant throw a pie at any player, servant or the monkey. The servant may only throw a pie if their location has not been voluntarily changed this turn and their location may not be voluntarily changed after throwing a pie. The servant must be carrying at least one pie in order to throw it, and the pie may only be thrown at a target whose location is connected to but not equal to the throwing servant's location. To throw the pie, the active player shall roll one die; if the result is an even number the pie is deemed to have hit. Should the pie hit, the pie is removed from the game and the target of the pie-throw shall immediately drop all tokens they are carrying. If the pie does not hit, the pie's new location becomes equal to the location of the target. Apologies for slacking jw From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Feb 10 23:43:31 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 23:43:31 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [R] new rules + [P] ones I missed In-Reply-To: <38968223.1044920523@cornelius> References: <38968223.1044920523@cornelius> Message-ID: <20030210234331.GA72476@spod-central.org> Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > Simple Simon Met Another Pieman [jwalrus] > Pieman, May I Taste Your Wares Yet Again? [jwalrus] > A Second Pie In The Face [jwalrus] Aye to all three. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with : : locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / : : To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] : From nomic02@wurb.com Tue Feb 11 00:27:24 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 19:27:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [T] Mmm. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I pick up the golden corknut. I then move myself to the House of Commons and Banford to Mornington Crescent. My turn is over. From nomic02@wurb.com Tue Feb 11 03:53:13 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 22:53:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [R] new rules + [P] ones I missed In-Reply-To: <38968223.1044920523@cornelius> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > Simple Simon Met Another Pieman [jwalrus] > Pieman, May I Taste Your Wares Yet Again? [jwalrus] > A Second Pie In The Face [jwalrus] Aye, aye, aye. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Tue Feb 11 09:30:31 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 09:30:31 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] Turn: Psmith's turn Message-ID: <20030211093030.GA76628@spod-central.org> I move to the Blasted Heath (2bp). I pick up the personal teleporter. Gideon Crawle moves to West of House. My turn is completed. It is jwalrus' turn. (Blasted Heath - 1 visit.) -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with : : locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / : : To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] : From nomic02@wurb.com Tue Feb 11 16:24:34 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 16:24:34 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] Proposal: It's Time! In-Reply-To: <20030209002351.GA54033@spod-central.org> References: <20030206110842.GA31587@spod-central.org> <20030209002351.GA54033@spod-central.org> Message-ID: <20030211162434.GA79556@spod-central.org> Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > Hmm. I could make it "any clock synched by NTP to an atomic > timeserver", if that'd help. If this applies to mail.wurb.com in its > normal operation, so much the better. Baf tells me it does, so: I vote nay on It's Time! [Psmith]. I propose as a new rule: It's Time Now! [Psmith] The current time shall be considered part of the state of the game. Reasonable divergence of clocks shall not be considered to be deception about the current state of the game; however, if there is disagreement, any clock synched by NTP to an atomic timeserver shall be considered to be authoritative. Times may be expressed in terms of whichever timezone a player wishes. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with : : locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / : : To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] : From nomic02@wurb.com Tue Feb 11 16:37:30 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 11:37:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] Proposal: It's Time! In-Reply-To: <20030211162434.GA79556@spod-central.org> Message-ID: > I vote nay on It's Time! [Psmith]. I propose as a new rule: Dead. > It's Time Now! [Psmith] Aye. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Wed Feb 12 16:39:44 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Adam Biltcliffe) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:39:44 -0000 Subject: [Nomic02] Proposal: It's Time! In-Reply-To: <20030211162434.GA79556@spod-central.org> References: <20030211162434.GA79556@spod-central.org> Message-ID: <22145703.1045067984@cornelius> > It's Time Now! [Psmith] Aye. jw From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Feb 13 11:22:09 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 06:22:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [T] Jota's turn Message-ID: Unfortunately, it looks like the bomb went off while I was waiting for my turn to come, but I think it's my turn now, so I'll pick up the lunchbox and the uplink again. I'm moving to the CPU (1bp, exploration), and then Grunk's moving to Saturn. And if all that's successful, that ends my turn. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Feb 13 20:24:33 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:24:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [T] Jota's turn In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, Admiral Jota wrote: > Unfortunately, it looks like the bomb went off while I was waiting for my > turn to come, but I think it's my turn now, so I'll pick up the lunchbox > and the uplink again. I'm moving to the CPU (1bp, exploration), and then > Grunk's moving to Saturn. And if all that's successful, that ends my turn. I note that you also lost 2 bp from the esplosion, so your net change is -1. Also, the IRAQ BOMB is back. I move Banford to The House of Commons. I drop the corknut and Banford picks it up. I move myself to Washington, DC, earning 1 bp for exploration. Also, I will repair the damage to Embedded CPU by making the second E nonconnective. Embedded CPU is no longer connected to Under the High Wall (on a resting). My turn is over. From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Feb 13 20:46:42 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:46:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [T] Jota's turn In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I belatedly notice that Roger Carbol is also in the House of Commons. Therefore, Banford could not move there. But I have also declared my turn over. So eliminating the illegal actions, I dropped the corknut and moved to Washington, DC while Banford sat there and did nothing. Drat. From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Feb 13 20:51:29 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:51:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [T] Jota's turn In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Also, Jota has just pointed out that the esplosion took place in Zrblm, not Embedded CPU. So that part of my turn is also invalid. Bah. From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Feb 13 20:57:08 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carbol, Roger) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:57:08 -0700 Subject: [Nomic02] [T] Jota's turn Message-ID: > I belatedly notice that Roger Carbol is also in the House of > Commons. Therefore, Banford could not move there. But I have also > declared my turn over. So eliminating the illegal actions, I=20 > dropped the > corknut and moved to Washington, DC while Banford sat there and did > nothing. Drat. I've foiled your evil plans once again. Mwuahahahah. But I could be encouraged to move out of the H of C for a suitable donation. .. Roger .. NOTICE:: This communication is intended ONLY for the use of the person or entity = named above and may contain information that is confidential or legally = privileged. If you are not the intended recipient named above or a = person responsible for delivering messages or communications to the = intended recipient, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED that any use, distribution, = or copying of this communication or any of the information contained in = it is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in = error, please notify us immediately by telephone and then destroy or = delete this communication, or return it to us by mail if requested by = us. The City of Calgary thanks you for your attention and cooperation. From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Feb 13 23:44:37 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:44:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [T] Jota's turn In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, Carbol, Roger wrote: > But I could be encouraged to move out of the H of C for > a suitable donation. Considering that you're all alone in a room with a valuable prize token, I suspect that you're going to move soon regardless. From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Feb 13 23:50:14 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:50:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Bottle imp Message-ID: The bottle imp is still inert. I have two proposals for new rules. I'd like to see them go into effect together, but I'd be willing to consider alternatives to either. The Bottle Imp is your Friend [baf] Every day at midnight GMT, any player carrying the Bottle Imp will receive 5 brownie points. The Bottle Imp is Not your Friend [baf] If the rules indicate that a player wins, and that player carried the Bottle Imp more recently than any other player currently in the game, that player will instead lose. From nomic02@wurb.com Fri Feb 14 09:25:14 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:25:14 +0000 Subject: [Nomic02] [P] Bottle imp In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030214092513.GA9645@spod-central.org> Carl Muckenhoupt wrote: > The Bottle Imp is Not your Friend [baf] > If the rules indicate that a player wins, and that player carried the > Bottle Imp more recently than any other player currently in the game, that > player will instead lose. Hmm. I'd like to see this one explicitly state that the effects of someone having won the game will not occur. Alternative rule proposals, slightly less extreme: The Bottle Imp Gives You Wings [Psmith] A player or servant holding the Bottle Imp may be moved twice per turn instead of once; all other restrictions on movement actions apply. The Bottle Imp Gives You Chains [Psmith] A player holding the Bottle Imp, or whose servant is holding the Bottle Imp, may not gain brownie points that would take his or her brownie point tally to the next higher multiple of 50 or above; if he or she would gain such a number of points, the tally is instead set to one less than the next higher multiple of 50. The Bottle Imp Sticks Around [Psmith] The Bottle Imp may not be voluntarily dropped. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "... and in the silence you hear no plaint of flute or roar : : of gong, but instead the crash of porcelain shattering." : : -- Yoon Ha Lee, "The Moonlit Tower" : From nomic02@wurb.com Fri Feb 14 09:36:31 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (D